Kavitha Kukunoor, homeopath (USA) interviewed, Dr Divya Chhabra under Champa tree (Mumbai) on January 22nd 2020
Topics covered are
About Leap to the Similimum
Background
Neuronal circuit & source of remedy
Case examples
KK- Kavitha Kukunoor, CCH, RS Hom(NA),C.HP,BHMS
DC- Divya Chhabra, MD Homeopath
KK : Today January 22nd 2020. I am at Dr. Divya Chabra’s clinic at her beautiful terrace. Wonderful!
And it’s such a pleasant way. Everyone knows Dr.Divya she is a world renowned Homoeopath and no introduction is needed.
About myself, I am Kavitha kukunoor from USA President & CEO of Kavitha Holistic Approach and served HWC for 10yrs and retired as President and COO of HWC after serving 2 yrs. I have been in USA from past 23 years.
Today I am here, I am really honoured by Dr.Divya for this opportunity and so we just had nice breakfast and it was wonderful.
DC : I am so happy to have . It’s my first breakfast actually on Terrace. Actually we have lunch often but this is our first poha and chai with Kavitha.
KK : Right from Mumbai airport I went to ISCKON temple to get Lord Krishna’s blessings and then beautiful face of Dr.Divya’s . So, all so happy… Dr Divya please tell me your “concept of leap to similimum” it’s very interesting please would you like to share more about it.
DC : So, the leap to the similimum in a sense was a pinnacle of a lot of work that happened from beginning in my journey of Homoeopathy. So, like everybody I started Homoeopathy learning the Rubrics and the Materia medica and watching the beautiful cases that would emerge from when would match the Rubrics with the remedy .However as the time went by I like the rest of the Homoeopaths did also have those frustrating moments where you are matching the rubrics perfectly but the remedy is not working. As my practice grew number of such frustrating moments also grew and naturally pushes us to look deeper, look at cases deeper. As we began to look at the cases deeper I began to see other Homoeopaths at the same time that Rubric is not just a mathematical totality, it together forming a state and this state we began to see as a “Delusion”.
That means that on the surface we could see some symptoms and some rubrics. But the real state was actually something which was not real, which was irrational. Which means it was like a peon or white collar worker working somewhere but his state and his symptoms that he does projected was as if he was the king in a kingdom.
Right …
Thus we began to recognise that if we saw the symptoms on the outside but link them to the deeper, “picture behind the picture” then we come to that delusional state and with this our success rate zup… went up. For a while, we were all very happy and I am extremely happy and then again unfortunately or fortunately come those frustrating moments again.
KK: Come again?!?
DC : when we are doing everything and when we know it often comes when you feel like now you are well settled in life, everything is going well, your cases are doing well, you reached your this comfortable pace. And then come those days with follow up after follow up, after follow up, patients say we are not better.
Like you know, you know …
KK : It stopped ?
DC: After saying what you did wrong, you start having to look at what are we doing wrong.
Right …
Like you were saying it stopped at a particular time and so then at this point you begin to look at what is happening.
What’s at this point?
Where?
What is that we are not able to see?
And it was a very frustrating moment in my work time.
Where I was trying to recognise and try to see what I was doing wrong in these cases. I would often retake these cases like three, four, five times and still not be able to find what was happening. I must add at this point I had already started accidentally as happens with many interesting things doing a process which is free association which is into that state picture behind picture, the state behind state.
KK : Is this something background ?
DC : This is not yet the background . The background is still a little ahead in the story.
This is I am telling a way back when I am talking about 15 -20 years ago what I was doing. As I was attempting to kind of … go, take the symptoms of patient and go beyond to see that delusional state.
KK : Free association means free person from him into the delusion state and then looking at the both ?
DC : Absolutely right, Absolute. Perfectly. Put that it like free from you, free from this outer reality and then allows you to go into that point to see where your actual state is is coming from.
Right …
This actually happened again accidentally. I had a patient who was not doing well. She was in emotionally and physically in a very bad state. Her thyroid levels were very very high, emotionally she was in a bad marriage, in a very difficult moment in her life. I was trying to help her not able to, to that extent.
In one of my retake sessions I asked her dream and when she described her dream all there where stones in her dream and in these stones she felt extremely frustrated and this frustration she says, I am feeling now in this moment the same frustration which I remember all the time in this dream and in my childhood I have the same feeling… So I knew this stone was important. But, I didn’t know what to do with it.
Like I said what’s the stone doing?
Is it falling on you?
Is it injuring you?
Are You feeling scared?
Are You feeling strong?
I tried everything. So, in that leap of case I said to the patient if I say the word stone,
What’s the first thing that comes to you?
Instantly she was transported into her childhood.
On a mountain where she was sitting up there on this mountain and in front was the lake and there were these ducks, mother duck with the little baby’s. As she spoke about this Duck and the visual and the experience with the Duck and what she could see, every little piece of her case came together like a jigsaw puzzle.
Right …
KK: Wonderful!
DC : So , I started doing this when I would come to what was at the conscious and What was at the outside level?
KK : It was so easy for you to drag and get to there.
DC : It actually has a whole months of frustration on me.
Actually it seems like Zup… a kind of just went. At that this point I started doing this in other cases where we would come to this and knew, hold this point. Where we knew this is a door and there is something beyond. We don’t know how to go. I would pick the words and go there.
Right …
Until one patient told me when I said this is what we are going to do.
She said: Oh!!
You are doing free association?
I was like, what’s that?
She said like Ya that’s the Freudian free association.
I am sure I have read Freud somewhere but consciously I don’t remember reading free association specifically, but it was interesting here was the confluence of what psychology and what we are doing in Homeopathy. So the next step in my evolution was this free association which was already obviously taking us to the unconscious.
KK : You are Right.
DC : As this happened when we were building the state in the unconscious as I told you there was still a point where there was a kind of plateau. There are still cases which are on doing well, no matter what you did.
KK : Not much improvement as you expected?
DC : At this point I begin to look deeper into some of these cases again there was this landmark case wasn’t doing well.
She was actually going for a pacemaker because of an irregular heart beat. It was like my last ditch try in a kind of stop that surgery for her. I tried to push beyond the boundaries of what we have done so far. A phenomenon happened.
KK : Is that the background?
DC : No, this the lead to the similimum actually. Here she started speaking. She started actually taking me with her because that case when I look at it unfold in front of me today I don’t know how and where she went from where. Like she was pulling me along with her. As we went ahead suddenly there was this moment where she gives us the remedy. She gave the name of the remedy. As she gave the name of the remedy every characteristic of that substance and every characteristic of her state just completely came together.
KK : Everything perfectly matched.
DC: What happened with this patient is she began to speak and began to take me to a point and suddenly like I said, gave you the name of the remedy. And everything she said about the substance all we know about the substance matched exactly every piece of her symptoms, her mental, emotional and physical. So I was like what happened here, now a few weeks later, similar phenomena happened with another patient. All I did was try to push beyond the boundary what I was doing so far zup of kick like the patient suddenly seem to take off and take me with him. So then because, I record my cases I watched I began to see pattern in these cases and the pattern was that these patients would start with the chief complaints and then speak about them in terms of their senses right, you know like the actual visual, the smell, the touch, not their emotional feel or how they thought about their problem but just how they actually experienced
KK: With their 5 senses they felt.
DC: With their 5 senses how they actually experience this. And then they would suddenly go into some absurd thing they would say something really absurd. Right, For Example: Like they would something like “um um the tomato is blue in colour” and then they would stop and say “No no I am sorry, I don’t know what I said that so stupid” and then we took the blue further it would come to the substance which was the remedy because it would bring every piece of that case beautifully like a puzzle pieces falling into place.
KK: A nonsense word which ever that patient uttered accidently and then she tried to correct it “No no it is not blue, it is red”
DC: Because she suddenly realized “what the hell did I say”
KK: But you got that clue.
DC: Absolutely, and that is the lead to the Similimum which happened, Right, I didn’t know I was going there. Wasn’t anything I was trying to do, it just happened. As it kept happening, then I began to understand it a little later. Then I began to understand that what we are doing here moving from the conscious to this unconscious which is not real, which is absurd, which is irrational. Do you understand like if “I am a clock, but I think I am a king it is absurd and irrational.” And this movement, from this conscious, rational, reality state or life to that inner unconscious, delusional absurd point, is that leap we are talking about. So the leap to the similimum is the method or the methodologies where you move from the conscious through the 5 senses with one jump across an imaginary metaphorical wall into that unconscious.
KK: Wonderful, that is wonderful Divya.
DC: Like you been asking me because we were talking and I was excited to share
KK: And I heard something Background and that Neurotic way of understanding that I felt that that is something different which I heard that is something new innovative way that you are doing. That’s really amazing and I am interested in it.
DC: Now that’s something I am also so excited to share with you. Because, again when you are like I am telling you the ladder it goes from the rubrics to the state beyond the state then going to the unconscious. Till this point we are talking unconscious in psychological term. Right, the Fraud, hume talked about the unconscious mind state of the person. As I was working more what began to emerge from this is this unconscious we are talking about is not the psychological unconscious it is the unconscious part of a brain. It is the neurological unconscious. Right, and Now our brain has as neurologists tell you has 5 percent of a conscious part of voluntary part it’s our cortex the new part of the brain what the human has as which the animals don’t. This part of the brain we control consciously we decide we learn we think we analyse and we take an action. This is just 5 percent, 95 percent of our brain matter are neurons that are part of the automatic brain. The automatic or here I use unconscious in neurological term is so called because we cannot consciously control. Do you get it?
KK: Yes, absolutely!
DC: Because you can’t tell so now for example our body functions are all part of the automatic way. Because we don’t wake up in the morning and say mitral valve open, tricuspid close, left ventricle contract, right ventricle open, diaphragm go down, ribs go out. You know the whole day we would be just doing this pepsin go, kidneys do this, whole time we would be saying Breathe breathe. The whole whole of our life that’s all we would do.
KK: Absolutely
DC: That human being that goes to Mars and does innovative things wouldn’t happen… So what obviously happened over time as evolution for efficiency is that this 5 percent hard drive neurons in our thinking conscious brain has freed up given you like your computer gets full up and you need to either put in a new hard drive you got this new memory space that allows us to think, to imagine, to create new things, to be human beings. While the rest of our brain the 95 percent looks after the automatic functions without us looking at it. Right, and this not looking at it is again for efficiency because again the whole day we are looking heart is beating, you breathing, either we will be getting panic attacks all the time or we can’t do anything else in our life. Right, so it’s very efficient to that we don’t look over here and that this functions like an automatic pre-programmed circuit. So this entire automatic brain is a pre-programmed circuit that is functioning, right, from birth it is programmed and just it’s doing its bit but it also changing according to the environment and this change in the environment is they are getting their information constantly from the 5 senses only. Do you understand?
KK: Yes
DC: So when we were doing use the 5 senses and going to the unconscious and we thought we are going into the mental emotional unconscious, we were actually also going into the brain’s automatic unconscious to the actual neuronal part where the whole body functions are located. Now this is very interesting, because we are dealing with disease, we are dealing with alteration in body function and this alteration in the body function is in happening through this automatic area.
KK: Correct
DC: So obviously we are these programmes like a computer chip programme, like a circuit which is there in our brain obviously this automatic brain, it sends the nerve from medulla oblongata, Pons, to your respiration, digestion.
KK: All the instructions and everything goes.
DC: All the instructions like they are working automatically and it’s changing, correcting accordingly to the 5 senses. So your reflexes are there, you put your hand in hot water.
KK: Immediately
DC: Your hand will come up instantly. Touch goes over here. Right, suddenly you hear a sound, you instantly turn. The ears are sending the message. Right, you are balancing yourself, you are going like this. The pressure over here will increase, the message will come from the sensory neurons, we will correct ourselves. We hear that tak tak tak sound on the side we know it’s a bird. Right, we don’t need to even look over there. Are you agree with me?
KK: That’s true.
DC: So, this reflex programmes that are fed in are also part of our body functioning and therefore it is obvious that it is this alteration in this programme or circuit that going to create the problem in your health. And thus by entering into through the 5 senses into this automatic zone, what we are doing is trying to figure how these programmes code off.
KK: Wonderful.
DC: Now I have to tell you the most exciting part.
KK: Very good, Very good, I am also excited to hear that.
DC: The most exciting part. This is to understand how do these programmes actually form and what is, how do they connect with your disease and how they connect with your remedy in Homoeopathy. Right
KK: Yeah, Absolutely.
DC: So, now I am going take back to the Pavlov experiment 1890. Pavlov’s the Russian Scientist, When very little was things were been learnt about neurology. He did this famous experiment, where does this dog and he showed the dog the food. Now as his an inborn reflex , the dog started drooling saliva pouring out of his mouth. It happens to us also you that nice poha lying over there and our mouth begins to water this is efficiency we don’t drool but saliva forms in the mouth because it meant to start the digestive process. The amylase comes from the saliva, the digestive enzyme. So in our machine has got pre prime, it’s ready. The moment the food goes zuup your digestion it’s efficiency. So, this is circuit that is there within our brain. I use the term circuit and neurologists use term circuit because the neurons by itself like electrical wire. Right.
KK: Yes
DC: It has got its long axon, its insulated
KK: And they are connected…
DC: And they pass electricity and one passes it to the next neuron to the next neuron and thus the circuit form. Right!
KK: Network.
DC: Now apart from inbuilt circuits when we are born, in this automatic brain we also learn things. Right, we are born, we don’t know anything. We don’t know what a dog is. You don’t know what a bird is. You don’t know what a cup is. You don’t know anything.
KK: We Learn.
DC: So we learn by forming a circuit. So, the child/baby sees that triangular mouth that shape triggers a neuron in the eye which triggers a neuron in the brain. Right, in that appropriate area then the wet tongue touches, that wetness of the tongue and its touch triggers another neuron here that goes to the appropriate area in the brain and the next neuron joins to this, then the dog does woof the ear picks up the woof. Right triggers the neuron, triggers the appropriate neuron in the brain and that woof sound gets triggered. Then the four legs one more neuron, tail one more neuron. So, this circuitry of the neuron for the triangular face, neuron for the tongue, for touch, for woof sounds.
KK: Each one has different one that effect.
DC: Effects but each neuron is now connected and forms the complete circuit like an electric circuit. As soon as the circuit is complete “we say dog” Do you get it?
KK: Yes
DC: So we know when this circuit is complete you have to say this is a dog. This is what we have programmed, this is how we learn. Do you understand?
KK: Umm
DC: Now what Pavlov did here is to this natural inbuilt dog salivation food circuit he added a bell which means every time he gave food to the guy to the dog he rang a bell. Now this bell which has nothing to do with digestion got introduced into the diet circuit. That dog’s circuit, the bell got introduced. Do you get it? He repeated this number of times because it is not inbuilt, you have to repeat it. As you repeat it, it gets fixed. It got fixed. Now, what he did is he removed the food.
KK: Yes
DC: He only showed the he only made the bell ring. As soon as the bell would ring, the dog would salivate.
KK: And all the things will happen.
DC: All the Digestive thing will start happening, because once a circuit is formed these are conditioned reflexes or learned reflexes. As these form, once they get firmed up. You trigger at any one point, the whole circuit will start. You can trigger at the food or you can trigger at the bell, it will start that whole chaki.
KK: How interesting it is, yeah. We remember in our childhood we wrote all these one and now we are implementing that in philosophy- Homoeopathy.
DC: Absolutely
KK: That’s Amazing!
DC: Whatever we learned in 9th 10th standard it all kind of coming together in a beautiful manner.
KK: Yes, That’s true.
DC: Now what is this have to do with Health, Disease and Homoeopathy? Right Now I want you to replace this dog with a Baby. Ok.
KK: Umm
DC: Lets a 4 month old Baby, lets coincidentally this Baby lives next to a school. Ok. This is a disciplined household and by chance his meal timings are coinciding with the bell ringing in the school. So 9 ‘o’ clock Breakfast, 11 ‘o’ clock mid meal, 1’o’ clock lunch, 4 o’clock he gets his tea when that bell rings. Now bell gets introduced into this Baby’s circuit.
KK: Yes
DC: In our childhood, our circuits are forming rapidly new, new, new circuits because we are learning things. So in this child, now bell gets introduced. Right, Now all is well doesn’t matter bell is introduced. But let’s say we talking suppose in the 1960’s and 1970’s. Let’s say at the age of 30, he takes up a job as a station master. Ok. Now what’s going to happen? Every time that train used to come in at that time. What happens exactly? When say this to patients every patient laughs.
KK: Yes
DC: The train comes in “ting, ting, ting”
KK: He gets all that reactions.
DC: His entire digestive system starts functioning.
KK: Correlated
DC: Correlated “ ting, ting, ting” train leaves doke his whole system starts which means the train’s coming every 15 minutes, every half-an- hour, each time, his full digestive process is starting. He is going to be hungry either, he will stuff his face, he will eat, he will keep eating, he will become obese. He will get Diabetes. He will get Blood pressure, Cholesterol, Lifestyle diseases because he is eating.
KK: Yes
DC: Or he won’t eat because there is no food around and he will stop himself. But that acid and pepsin will keep producing itself. Do you get it? Now as this acid and pepsin going to create erosion Gastritis, Acidity, Gastric ulcer is going to form. Are you with me?
KK: Absolutely, so all this is related.
DC: Related. In other words, now when we look at ourselves or look at our patient. What we have to do is go back to their circuitry in childhood. See the circuits that keep repeating, they are a pattern, they repeat. And find out which is this bell that had come into this circuit that has no reason to be there. But now it becomes part of the circuit and which is this bell which is now resulting in to Disease, the organ pathology and the symptom that he has.
KK: Is that something Causation or Stimulating or Exciting factor or what do you say? Anything.
DC: It’s like a Concomitant
KK: OK
DC: It’s like a Concomitant because it’s like that you know this is why I feel Boenninghausen’s concomitant is most brilliant scenario that happens because something is happening and something is happening on the side you see which is not connected to the whole thing. Which is just what’s happening with the bell, it becomes the part of that circuitry though it has nothing to do with it. Do you understand?
KK: Absolutely
DC: And every time that bell now will ring the whole circuit is getting active. Do you understand? Now what we are doing therefore and this that question that you were excited you were asking because I was telling you. “What is this Background method?”
KK: Yes
DC: So Background is exactly this the school and the bell are in the background of his life. Do you understand? The station master, his train and his work is in the background of his life. So what we are doing now is taking the patient to their childhood. Seeing the background’s in the childhood because also remember that whenever we are looking at anything in front of us the main thing goes into our conscious brain. Everything on the side like that car horn on the side that’s going into our automatic brain because it doesn’t have to do with main thing and this 5 percent main brain doesn’t want to waste it’s memory drive. It wants to take only important stuff. Right, the rest can all go here, this part takes everything, no filter, everything it takes. So when we access that part of the brain everything comes all those side things that have nothing to do with the main event. The thinking brain will talk about saliva, food. The bell will come from the automatic or unconscious brain. Right, now you might ask me which a lot of patients do the moment I tell them this. They tell me “But doctor I don’t remember anything, how the hell are you expecting me to remember”
KK: That absolutely true I am going to say.
DC: I don’t remember what happened yesterday, you are going to talk to me about when I was 4 years old or 5 years old. “How do You expect me to remember?” Now again another accidental discovery. At a leading teaching hospital in the USA, they were performing a epilepsy surgery. Now most brain surgeries are called awake or alert surgeries. Because when you get into the brain mean the patient is anesthetised means he is painless, analgesised but he is not put to sleep because when you get into the brain you don’t know what is where, it all looks the same. You have to be very careful that you are not damaging any particular part of the brain while you are doing the surgery. I mean there is a interesting anecdote about this and it’s been repeated so often that we don’t know if it’s actually or it’s just a story but it describes it well. There was a violin player very well known, world famous violin player going in for a brain surgery and their He said “you can do anything to me but my violin playing should not get affected” and he said “If that going to affected I rather die, I don’t want this.” So the story goes that he was operated and all the time he was operated he was told keep playing the violin, keep playing the violin. Now that explains the whole thing that you need to be totally doing it so that you know that you are not damaging the brain. So this surgeon was operating on person for epilepsy and as he had washed up and gloved and he was about to start the procedure. He just brushed the part of the brain which is normal. Suddenly this patient started speaking “5 years old, backyard of my house, there is a tree, here are 2 chains here the rubber band. Oh it’s got cut. I am swing high, high, high and I fell down”
KK: Remembered everything.
DC: Not only did he remembered everything like you rightly said but it’s like way he describing it as the surgeon noted: He said it’s like he is not just saying “when I was 5 years old, I fell down in the backyard and got hurt.” This is like telling a narration of an event, this is how our conscious brain works. What he was saying is “Backyard, there is a tree, here is a chain” actually making you almost see every detail.”
KK: Exactly. He is giving you the background.
DC: He is giving you the details of the background not just the overall ki garden hai. Not just that it’s a garden. He is telling you the details this is here, this is here, this is here. He wrote a paper on this, it started an entire research in all these teaching hospitals where they began to take volunteer patients and during the surgeries stimulate parts of the brain to see what happens when their brain is stimulated. The end result is what seems to be is that our entire life from birth to today is recorded scene by scene by scene by scene in this automatic brain. It’s like storing all our memories but because its information is through the 5 senses, it’s not just storing it like a story, Oh this happened, it storing it as it happened with the visual, with the sound, with the smell, with the taste, like a full 5D movie, not just a 3D movie. Are you with me?
KK: Umm
DC: Which is why we would all had this experience sometimes in life that somebody you see something or somebody mentions a name or a place or you see a food and suddenly you go “oo when I was 10 years old, remember we had gone over there. There it looked, we had gone behind that, there was this table, there was this ditch over there. You fell down, your ball was there.” Every little detail is like comes up so sharply till you almost taste and smell the food. We all have this experience. Right,
KK: Yes.
DC: And sometime you say “did this really happen” or I am making it up, because it’s so clear and vivid. Now neurologists know if you into these memory areas and if you stimulate with a electrical thing those areas, the entire experience becomes alive as if it is happening now because all our 5 senses data is out there. Do you get it?
KK: Yes
DC: Now this happens occasionally because most of the time we are focusing on our thinking mind. Now in the processes of using the leap to the similimum background method, as we grow through the 5 senses into this automatic area of the brain do you understand? We are now going to see all these visuals. The patient is going to see all these visuals in faster frequency 1, 2, 3, 4, because that’s what there, you landed in that area. Your train has gone to that station. You are going to see those things. Do you get it?
KK: Yes
DC: Which occasionally we would see now we are going to see them and as these come up. These are childhood 5 years old, 7 years old, and 10 years old and as we see the background in this, the pattern and the circuit gets clear and clear. And then through this circuit, we find that bell and through the bell we see which is the bell linked to his Disease and that bell is the source of the Similimum.
KK: Amazing. That’s really great and Divya can I ask you… This is really interesting and I wish everyone get this opportunity to hear from you, about your conferences or anything where you tell them the all the things advanced things. What are your future plans, Divya?
DC: So I have a conference/seminar in India in February on the 22nd 23rd at the other song where I want to share with my Indian colleagues all this exciting information. A lot of people feel afraid this is new. It’s not really new, it’s just explaining what Hahnemann, Kent and Boenninghausen said using the modern research and the modern technology. A big criticism we have to Homoeopathy is we are still talking about miasms as the cause of the disease when bacteria is found over here. You know. The scientific world says we are not advancing. Actually if we just look at the advances we can clearly see and explain what the entire philosophy and functioning of Homoeopathy is in the basis of neurology. So I hope to do that in India, in Toronto in March on the 6th 7th Eve I would do the same. In October in New york. My book which is on the leap to the similimum first method which is the word method is been done. I am perfecting it because of the newer things I have learnt. Next book on the Background should come. The thing that I would also like to do is to actually do a case with a volunteer patient probably a cured patient where their Rubrics were purely taken and then take another where we took their delusional or the state using you know Delusional method or evolutionary model or the sensation method. Right, now take this case without knowing the Rubric, without knowing the sensation or the Remedy; take this patient in detail using the method perfectly into the background of his childhood into the circuitry and then trace what is this connection between the rubric to our emotional intellectual to actual circuitry.
KK: And that one will be their constitutional remedy and deep acting remedy and everything there.
DC: Absolutely. And also I feel bringing it together it will firm up all the methods and also bring it together so we will be able to see that these different “so called different methods in Homoeopathy” aren’t any different methods but they are all probably seen the case at different levels or different aspects and if we can bring that confluence together I think Homoeopathy will be sharper and we will do really good work as we move together.
KK: Thank you so much Dr Divya for giving me this opportunity. I am really honoured and blessed Dr Divya
DC: Thank you very much. It’s a pleasure to meet you.
For Dr Divya’s upcoming events please visit : https://www.theothersong.com/
Health Inn show with Dr Divya Chhabra on April 14th: https://bit.ly/2xxNbIh
Kavitha Kukunoor, CCH, RS Hom (NA), C.HP, BHMS
President & CEO – Kavitha Holistic Approach
www.kavithakhomeo.com